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SESRET (S) 4 b1 KAK:rs GUNDANG: (Cont.) incarcerated for 27 years he's come out and he speaks for and on behalf of the organization uh, that's the African National Congress and there is a fair amount of tension within the organization. There is the old school, there is the, the radical element. There is the moderate voice. And I think the UNT he's getting the better off the ANc but in the end uh it's not gonna be the international community, it's not gonna be the hero worship and internationally it's gonna matter inside. All the different players within the country will have to work out the South African problem because in the end it's a South African problem which has to be worked out by, by South. Africans. KAPLAN: That is perhaps the most. important aspect of his visit. And a bit later on I think we should discuss it rather urgently, and that is there is MANDELA's attitude to other countries. That he is totally uninterested. He, he travels around and gives countries advise of how they should live and how they should behave. GUNDANG: Um-hmm. KAPLAN: And he expects in America that people have come to applaud him don't just applaud him because he is a novelty but applaud him because he is so important that he might change the attitude of the American black entirely. That I believe is a dangerous thought if he carries that around.