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SESRET b1 {S) 1 KAK:rs RALPH KAPLAN: Good morning. Last week's program was with Mr. RAFIK GUNDANG (phonetic) who is consul for the South African government and is involved in the things that are important to their, uh, to their country. However, we talked about MANDELA before he came here and we both decided that we would meet aqain after Mr. MANDELA had left the United States and this I plan to do after the next important message.(Pause) Welcome again RAFIK for coming back. Thank you that you are with me. We are still alive despite the fear that we all had that Mr. MANDELA might turn over the United States completely. KAfDuE 6AN6A Iell I'm glad to be here. KAPLAN: I know but tell me, what was your first reaction when Mr. MANDELA left uh Los Angeles for Oakland? GUNDANG : Well uh, when, well while he was here uh it was an opportunity for American people to see him, to hear him, to indulge in some hero worship and uh we fo..felt that it was an important visit and in the interest of democracy Americans ought to hear all points of view and Americans heard his point of view. What I was disappointed with was that more scrutiny ought to be placed on his statements. b1 KAPLAN: You said something that actuallv is, has, contains a deep truth He wanted us to hear his point of view but he was totally in. uninterested in hearing our point of view. It was at all CLASSIFIED BY NSICG T54LSSH42 times totally monologue. REASON: 1.4 (c) DECLASSISY ON: 04-25-2039 DATE: 04-25-2014 ALL INEORLATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS UNCLASSIFIED EXCEFT SECRET NHERE SHOAN CTHERWISE