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SECRET 10. is! b1 KAK:rs GUNDANG: (Cont.) already what I'm unT certain black lobbies and it's becoming. more a black/white thing.. KAPLAN: Tell me how popular is MANDELA in South Afr...South Africa amongst the many millions of blacks? GUNDANG: I think the democratic process in South Africa would prove that. KAPLAN: In other words he has also. enemies and opponents?. GUNDANG: Yes.. Uh, obviously he does and. I think when all blacks UNT vote and when uh people then vote uh we'll. .know whether he has the popularity or not.. KAPLAN : Thank you very very much. I think our conversation should be continued and I will ask you to have another program with me for next week. GUNDANG : Thank you very much.. KAPLAN: So until next week when we hear again from, from Mr. RAFIK GUNDANG, this is RALPH KAPLAN. SECRET