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makes a survey of SB Division during this period and concludes that there are some substantial problems in SB Division. Admiral Taylor recalls that he reported the same to you and also that there had to be some personnel changes made. Pete Bagley is removed as deputy chief of the Division when he's been there less than a year, leading me to at least wonder if this wasn't a premature removal. David Murphy is also remoyed as Division Chief and sent to Paris. Are all these things related.? Particularly the personnel rotat ion? Helms : I have no recollection of this. I'm sorry. You know, there were so many personnel changes that happened every day, or every week, or every month in the Agency that it has to be a pretty exceptional thing for me to remember. And I don't remember the IG report and I don't know what the problem was even. Or I don't remember if there was a problem. Bagley and Murphy are still available to you, I assume, and so you might be able to find out from them. Hathaway: I'm talking to Murphy tomorrow and Bagley is in Europe. Helms : Well, he comes here every once in a while. Hathaway: Well, 'that answers my question though. At least it was not important enough to stand out in your mind. . . . I want to talk a little bit about t h e r ] -[case. Do you remember anything about that? Helms : No, which case was this? 1 5