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CV Abe CV 98- 2 it was too dark. .HNe had no idea whether the people involved wore students or ontsiders He added, however’, while the fire men were attemtping to catineuish the flames, approximately 30 individuals were invoived in an attempt to take the hoses away Irom the fire men. At this sone time, stones were continuing to be thrown at the ROTC Builcng On Sunday, he advised «he spent the day with his firlfriend, ca) i wae cntcd that on Monday, May 4, 1970, his fret Se vorrill Hal) at 12:05. At that time he prescedsd throuch the Comsons, his normal route of travel, where be observed a mirantsc erowd of people. At approxinately three quarters of the way through the Commons, he had seer the VMational Guard and the crowd was told to disperse, At that time, teir gas was beins thrown With some recks beings thrown by studepis ug tear ras being thrown back to the National Guard, advised that the crowd split into two sections, one wonl Goin Vvayier ang dounsen iialt and the other ¢rrour went around by the omens" doviiitery. All he can recall was that there was an lot of tear fas being discharged and thot the students were roturning the tear pas in the area of the Wational Guard. At this timc, he was proceeding up toward the gate over the hill. Ge scid all he could observe was & hanciul of stucents throwing stuff at the National Guard, hovever, he had no idea what it was since he was from 1 = 2 football ftelds aywey. We said in that area, there are not nany rocks just ga few stiekso nnd chones shee Phe 2 LAG Se He docs recalh at this time the students were retreating and then he henrd sone shots being fired at which tine he hit the fround. Le then ohserved a student lying in the sireet, believed to be JEFFREY WELLER, Fe ran toward him wivh the inte nv of assisting. Ne belicves this was over by tho parking pate. While he was doing this, he observed what appeared to him, severa} shots hitting the ceround and = rade 4 oi 3 iu oF mow ar Vdvat! who were riccchettine just tn front of a proup Gf Students, who were helping JEYIREY NTLUBR. He did not sce anyone fire these shots; however, he looked wp and observed fovr or five guardsnen conning nerry that croup, it was at this time that the stuaents there robuked the National Guard and told them to get ecnut of there because they were trying to help this student who was already dead, WO