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Helms : You know, we're wasting time here now, Bob, because I don't have the details of those counterintelligence cases. I think that Scotty Miler and Ray Rocca and Jim Angleton have got to be thoroughly interrogated on these matters if you want to get into that kind of detail about these things. Hathaway: All I want to know is . . . Probably these things didn't reach you except I know that this one called your house. Helms : But in that particular case there was a call to my. : ? - - - : : I I ,- . G house by somebody, but the details now I've forgotten. They talked to my first wife and she in turn called me and I don't know what, who in the [?I was the person who put in the call. I've forgotten all that so that I'm really not very helpful. , I just do know that I was in the takeoff on that because of this telephone call. Hathaway: But the takeoff was it? Helms : Well, I probably followed it for some time but how it came out I don't know. Hathaway: One more case study and then that's all the specifics I've got for you. particularly in the OS, a hunt for moles or alleged moles. During this period in which you were Director, the finger for a time was placed on Subsequently he's been vindicated. Did this reach your level at all? There has been periodically, EII 23