◆ SpookStack

Approved For Release 2001/04/02 : CIA-RDP81R00560R000100010003-8 FLYING SAUCER continued “Could she have planted these thoughts?” Dr. Simon asked Barney Mill. BARNEY: Only that they had come into the room with my teeth, and they were quite startled that my teeth would come out and hers would not. pocTor: How about the other things you de- scribed to me, about what happened to you when they were examining you. Did she tell you about that? BARNEY: No. She never told me that. I was lying on the table, and I felt them examining me. Doctor: Is this part of Betty’s dream? BARNEY: I am telling you what actually hap- pened. At the time Betty was telling about her dream, I was very puzzled, because I never knew this happened. ... DOCTOR: Now, what about these men on the road? Are you sure they were there? . .. Did you dream this? BARNEY: No. I did not dream it. DOCTOR: You mean these men actually stopped you? BARNEY: Yes. pocrTor: All right. Go on from there. BARNEY: And I started to get out of my car. And I felt myself supported by two men, and my eyes were closed. ... It was obvious to the doctor that Barney was going to stick to his previous story. DOCTOR: Just a minute. Didn’t Betty tell this to you while you were asleep? BARNEY: No. Betty never told me this. pocTor: How do you account for this? Do you think it really happened? BARNEY: It did happen. I don’t want to remem- ber it. I suppose I won’t remember it. poctTor: Who told you you won’t remember it? BARNEY: I was told in my mind that I would for- get that ic happened. It was imprinted on my mind. DocTor: Imprinted on your mind? Who told you? BARNEY: I thought it was the man I saw looking down at me, and I was looking back at him... . DocTor: You said before that you don’t know what happened—but you also said that Betty told you a lot about what happened in her dream. BARNEY: She told me about herself. I did not know about what happened to Betty on the high- way, but I never believed her dreams. pocror: If you don’t believe her dreams, why do you believe yours? BARNEY: I never dreamed about UFOs until last Sunday... . I had them on Sunday night and on Tuesday night and on Wednesday night. And this is the first time I have ever dreamed of UFOs. DocToR: You told me some time ago that you felt disassociated when you saw this UFO. What did you mean by that? BARNEY: ... As if I had my body moving, and yet my thinking was separate from it... . And I never experienced this feeling again until I was in your 114 Look 10-18-66 office. And you made a little doggy come into the room. And I got hypnotized, and it made it seem as if the little doggy was there. He is referring to a test the doctor made with him. DOCTOR: This was an hallucination then, was it? BARNEY: That was an hallucination. Doctor: Then, how about this story of being kidnapped? Couldn’t that have been an hallucina- tion too? BARNEY: I wish I could think it was an hallucina- tion... . I feel very sure it happened. pocrTor: Did these men speak to you? BARNEY: Only the one I thought was the leader. . .. He did not speak by word. I was told what to do by his thoughts making my thoughts under- stand.... Doctor: Was this some kind of mental telepa- thy? BARNEY: I could understand his thoughts. His thoughts came to me, like I feel your thoughts— when you talk to me, that is. And I know you are there, and yet my eyes are closed. And you ask me questions. And I know you are there, but I don’t know where. . . . pocTor: Didn’t Betty hypnotize you? BARNEY: No. Betty did not hypnotize me. . - : pocror: Do you often sense her thoughts? BARNEY: Yes, we sometimes do this. ... Wesome- times try to see if we can sense what the other is thinking. It’s not too effective. pocTor: Could she have planted all these thoughts about the UFo in your mind? You said that she wanted to hypnotize you. BARNEY: I know Betty didn’t hypnotize me. I wanted to think she had hypnotized me. I wanted to think that the object wasn’t there. ... And yet it kept staying and going down the highway with uS.... T THE END of this trance, Barney said to Dr. Simon: “I’m puzzled. . . . I can re- member things . . . about today’s ses- sion that I couldn’t remember about any session that we had.” Doctor: What do you remember now? BARNEY: About the uFo sighting that I was talk- ing about and—uh—certain things puzzled me that I could not quite understand. ... We would talk about our sighting, and I would .. . come right up to the men in the craft turning to the panel. And I never could go further than that. But now I can almost see just what that fellow looked like that was looking down at me. ... And when I said that he was going to capture me, uh, Tused to remember that—but never could remem- ber why I felt he was going to capture me. .. . Doctor: Well, now, some strange things from here on out will occur to you as we go along. And you're going to become more and more conscious of what is going on in hypnosis. Up to this time, neither Barney nor Betty had been allowed to recall what happened in the hypnosis sessions. But instructions from the doctor to permit this are now beginning to take effect. Barney is dismissed. Betty is brought back and put in trance. Docror: Now, your dreams—Were they the things that happened in this experience you thought you had? The dreams were of being placed aboard this vehicle? BETTY: The dreams were something like it, but . there were still a lot of differences... . In my dreams, the last dream I had was of being cap- tured. . . . I could see the men in the road, and then they were trying to pull me on to this object. And it seems as though in my dreams, I walked up some steps. Oh—and I dreamed of them put- ting a needle in my navel. I dreamed this. . . . pocrTor: Did Barney know? . . about your dreams? . Did you tell him BETTY: I told him I had dreams. He wouldn’t— he didn’t like to hear about them... . poctTor: Did you tell anyone these dreams in Barney’s presence? BETTY: I think he must have heard me talk about them. pocTor: Didn't all these things that you feel happened—didn’t they happen in your dreams? Couldn't this a// have been in your dreams? BETTY: No. poctor: Why do you feel sure of that? BETTY: Because of the discrepancies. pocTor: Tell me about the discrepancies that make it clear that it couldn’t have been your dreams. BETTY: Well, I dreamed in my dreams I walked up steps. And here, I didn’t walk up steps. I walked up a ramp. pocrtor: Is that a very significant difference, do you think? BETTY: I don’t know... . But the map—I could almost—in here... in here, I could almost draw it. If I could draw, I could draw the map... . I can’t draw perspective. Doctor: Well, if you remember some of this after you leave me, why don’t you draw it.... BETTY: I'll try to. DocTorR: How can you account in this experience for these men who seemed to speak our language and yet didn’t knowa lot of things about our lives. Like dentures? You felt they came from another world, didn’t you? BETTY: Ummm—yes. Doctor: Did you feel that they could communi- cate with you in any other way than words? Were they able to transfer thoughts? BETTY: I don’t know about thoughts. pocTor: Have you been able to transfer your thoughts to anyone or receive someone else’s thoughts? BETTY: Barney and I are always saying the same thing at the same time. That type of thing. continued Approved For Release 2001/04/02 : CIA-RDP81R00560R000100010003-8