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MALCOLM @: What the Honorable ELIJAH KUBAMMAD bas done is actually analyzel the problen in such a way to nake whites as well as blacks see that no matter what position a black man in this country reaches, intellectually, professionally or otherwise, he atill is hampered by the color of his skin. For example, RALPH BUNCH, when be went to Atlanta, Georgia, was s¢gregated by some hotel owners. Another example, Congressman DIGGS of Detroit, Michigan, was in a house that was bombed in Mississippi. I'll say this, that no matter how high « Negro in this country rises he is etill held and checked by the color of his skin, collectively he is one of the victins. Just as our people are victins collectively no matter what our intellectual or professional ability is I think that our being a collective victim should make whites see that collectively their guilty. It rests upon them to solve this problem. It doesn't rest upon me to defend then. MING: At the risk of interfering in a private fight f think that both of you are oversimplifying the problen by this insistence of dividing the whole world, or at least the United States, into white and black. It isn't so much that I particularly object to your calling American Negroes black even though very few of them are and J know very few white people, if any, as a matter of fact the whitest people I know are Negroes but that’s another (inaudible). Yell both ways MALCOLM. In fact sone of the blackest ones I know are white. I think that if you limited us as I guess you were doing this problem of assignment of guilt which MALCOLM is doing and your problem of trying to point out that everybody isn't guilty. It's sort of self-defeating, isn’t it? Certainly Negroes didn't enslave themselves though there were African and Arabic slave traders who sold them to be brought to the United States and other places, so that if you atart trying to trace this matter of guilt in tems of skin color I think you do violence » 4a